Monday, July 22, 2013
Marin County California
Trying to stay current with the flood of pro-development activity locally in Marin and in California.
There is a nascent (just beginning) rebellion in the works.
The trouble is development has now got cloaked in Green so you have to really dig into things to
see what is real and what is pure BS or more kindly.. very misguided.
It's not easy because so many people want to keep it all lined up as everything is either
Left or Right. Good or Bad. Progressive or Reactionary. It seems safe for some to
view the world this way.
I am more critical and doubtful of much of anything touted as progress than some of you.
Particularly if it comes in the grand form of a Government Plan. I am all for government
of some sorts particularly if it was separated from the forces of the Rich. I would love to
see a government as proposed by the ancient Chinese where the confucian concept of wise
rule was to let the people govern themselves but still keep an eye on the scales in the
marketplace so the people could have some freedom from the cheaters.
Every development in California is supposed to have an Environmental Impact Report.
I wish their was a science of extinction or at least collapse for that is where we are going.
There is no science there just some people looking at the dots and not very happy as to what
is taking shape.
A Reply on the One Bay Area Plan
Jimmy Fishbob Geraghty · 15 mutual friends
Guy, you should have been there. The comparison of the pro plan group and the anti plan group was glaring. While everyone deserves to be heard, in the end the rational voice that presents in a civil manner, willing to actually offer realistic options, are the ones who will be listened to.
You are right in saying that there are legitimate concerns, but they get lost in all the John Birch Society fluff that gets tossed into the conversation. When good people start close associations with extremists right wing Koch funded groups you will be judged for the company you keep.
The Pro Plan bay Area side did their work, presented an alternative and had a seat at the table.
I hope you and the rest can learn from that.
Friday at 5:11pm · Like · 1..
Jimmy, If your belief that there was a glaring difference between the two sides is true and it was pro One Bay Area Plan than that is too bad we the opposition needed more good people there. Your version is a bit suspect for my observations of what we both witnessed in the past. Can you please post the link to your video of the hearing held at the civic center again I believe it was in May.
I was surprised back then that that you could witness this and only see right wing conspiracists when in fact there were so many cool calm voices. Someone organized a protest accusing those who spoke out in opposition to this plan as being racists yet when Robert Silvestri spoke at the Pickleweed Park Community Center he introduced himself as being to the left of Obama. Though maybe things have changed and finally the 'racist' right wing element that you have continually fought against is truly in control. I hope not and I doubt it.
Thank you for taking the time to do the video and putting it online. I think there are still many who could use an independent listen to the voices who came out and spoke in opposition.
You are correct in pointing out what voice gets listened to. The angry people who use verbal force or bullying tactics at the meeting in Marinwood serve only to undermine the validity of their argument. If the opposition to Plan Bay Area agrees with you that this is indeed a TParty operation against idiot Liberals, then I think they miss the boat and set themselves up for failure.
What the community who may be beginning to wake up needs to see that this is an issue that has powerful potential for our entire country for the good. That solutions that arise out of local communities wisdom work best. That real democracy needs to be renewed again and start with it’s roots not from the top. We tired, frustrated, angry, demoralized people who continually watch so much of the good, what we took for granted about our Country be eroded away will have to stand up.
Kostoyed Amourski commented in the string of comments seen in the MarinIJ and on Facebook which I think people need to see again. He quotes supervisor Kinsey.
"Voting 'no project' would not only be unlawful under state legislation, it would increase greenhouse gas impacts, sprawl and transit inefficiency," he wrote."
(Mr Amourski again.. ) Do you really think that there would've been a different outcome? Since a "no" vote was conveniently deemed an 'illegal" move, there was only the "lawful" "yes" choice to make.
So this was the democratic method. Wherein all our representatives. ( When did you elect someone to make these decisions?) You didn’t but duly elected to serve the People of Novato or San Rafael or Marin County or other localities our representatives then get appointed or appoint themselves to governmental bodies whose jurisdiction is much larger than their duly elected local responsibilities. Is this good? Does it serve the people?
Is this sound Democratic principals?
Jimmy Gerarghty tells me:
‘You are right in saying that there are legitimate concerns, but they get lost in all the John Birch Society fluff that gets tossed into the conversation. When good people start close associations with extremists right wing Koch funded groups you will be judged for the company you keep.’
I am proud to talk to good people of all persuasions. You say I am right 'that there are legitimate concerns' Jimmy you are a devoted force that makes sure 'the John Birch Society fluff' is always there to cloud the issues. I don't mind associating with a few yahoos, they are always present, maybe I could be seen as a yahoo myself. I don't want to associate with angry bullies however, of the left or the right.
According to the Marin IJ these people traveled to the final vote to voice their opposition. This is part of the company I keep:
Passengers included: Corte Madera Mayor Diane Furst, Larkspur Mayor Dan Hillmer, Sausalito Councilwoman Linda Pfeifer, former Fairfax mayor Frank Egger, supervisorial candidate Toni Shroyer and Randy Warren, who is running for a seat on the San Rafael City Council.
I may disagree or agree with any of these people as it may come to pass.
I find disturbing Jimmy’s warning, and of course it fits in well with the orderly world that the orthodox Left and the orthodox Right want to have be required to believe. Don’t support that group known Right Wing people support that philosophy. What if There was a Republican Federal Government and State Government. Would someone be warning us not to associate with known Liberals. Somewhere sometime people will have to learn to think for themselves.
Reiterating that Bullying tactics are not only counter-productive they speak to the lack of intelligence of the antagonists.
Our California, ‘the state’mandates growth. In the face of all the unique issues facing California that should cause us to have a higher degree of concern than most other parts of our Nation for sustainability aka .. survival, The state demands that local communities keep taking in more and more humanity. Fine humans, perhaps deserving of the California Dream but if the millions more that the State plans for and the greedy ‘bank’ on if they expand our communities, doubling our population how does that impact the existing community that exists. Does it threaten our well being and health?
Where is the water coming from that sustains us? How does it get to our faucets and baths? Will it be there to flush our toilets? What is the size of the next big Earthquake?
What happens to the people of California when our infrastructure is critically damaged?
Do people have the right to ask for prudence, conservation, caution? No, things are growing right now some ‘practical’ person might say, we must keep building. New people are arriving everyday. What happens in 2040 when California’s population is up around 40 or 50 million? Do we have the same argument as now? We must keep building because that is the way it is. When do we look at this issue and deal with it and stand for the existing community.
Guy, you should have been there. The comparison of the pro plan group and the anti plan group was glaring. While everyone deserves to be heard, in the end the rational voice that presents in a civil manner, willing to actually offer realistic options, are the ones who will be listened to.
You are right in saying that there are legitimate concerns, but they get lost in all the John Birch Society fluff that gets tossed into the conversation. When good people start close associations with extremists right wing Koch funded groups you will be judged for the company you keep.
The Pro Plan bay Area side did their work, presented an alternative and had a seat at the table.
I hope you and the rest can learn from that.
Friday at 5:11pm · Like · 1..
Jimmy, If your belief that there was a glaring difference between the two sides is true and it was pro One Bay Area Plan than that is too bad we the opposition needed more good people there. Your version is a bit suspect for my observations of what we both witnessed in the past. Can you please post the link to your video of the hearing held at the civic center again I believe it was in May.
I was surprised back then that that you could witness this and only see right wing conspiracists when in fact there were so many cool calm voices. Someone organized a protest accusing those who spoke out in opposition to this plan as being racists yet when Robert Silvestri spoke at the Pickleweed Park Community Center he introduced himself as being to the left of Obama. Though maybe things have changed and finally the 'racist' right wing element that you have continually fought against is truly in control. I hope not and I doubt it.
Thank you for taking the time to do the video and putting it online. I think there are still many who could use an independent listen to the voices who came out and spoke in opposition.
You are correct in pointing out what voice gets listened to. The angry people who use verbal force or bullying tactics at the meeting in Marinwood serve only to undermine the validity of their argument. If the opposition to Plan Bay Area agrees with you that this is indeed a TParty operation against idiot Liberals, then I think they miss the boat and set themselves up for failure.
What the community who may be beginning to wake up needs to see that this is an issue that has powerful potential for our entire country for the good. That solutions that arise out of local communities wisdom work best. That real democracy needs to be renewed again and start with it’s roots not from the top. We tired, frustrated, angry, demoralized people who continually watch so much of the good, what we took for granted about our Country be eroded away will have to stand up.
Kostoyed Amourski commented in the string of comments seen in the MarinIJ and on Facebook which I think people need to see again. He quotes supervisor Kinsey.
"Voting 'no project' would not only be unlawful under state legislation, it would increase greenhouse gas impacts, sprawl and transit inefficiency," he wrote."
(Mr Amourski again.. ) Do you really think that there would've been a different outcome? Since a "no" vote was conveniently deemed an 'illegal" move, there was only the "lawful" "yes" choice to make.
So this was the democratic method. Wherein all our representatives. ( When did you elect someone to make these decisions?) You didn’t but duly elected to serve the People of Novato or San Rafael or Marin County or other localities our representatives then get appointed or appoint themselves to governmental bodies whose jurisdiction is much larger than their duly elected local responsibilities. Is this good? Does it serve the people?
Is this sound Democratic principals?
Jimmy Gerarghty tells me:
‘You are right in saying that there are legitimate concerns, but they get lost in all the John Birch Society fluff that gets tossed into the conversation. When good people start close associations with extremists right wing Koch funded groups you will be judged for the company you keep.’
I am proud to talk to good people of all persuasions. You say I am right 'that there are legitimate concerns' Jimmy you are a devoted force that makes sure 'the John Birch Society fluff' is always there to cloud the issues. I don't mind associating with a few yahoos, they are always present, maybe I could be seen as a yahoo myself. I don't want to associate with angry bullies however, of the left or the right.
According to the Marin IJ these people traveled to the final vote to voice their opposition. This is part of the company I keep:
Passengers included: Corte Madera Mayor Diane Furst, Larkspur Mayor Dan Hillmer, Sausalito Councilwoman Linda Pfeifer, former Fairfax mayor Frank Egger, supervisorial candidate Toni Shroyer and Randy Warren, who is running for a seat on the San Rafael City Council.
I may disagree or agree with any of these people as it may come to pass.
I find disturbing Jimmy’s warning, and of course it fits in well with the orderly world that the orthodox Left and the orthodox Right want to have be required to believe. Don’t support that group known Right Wing people support that philosophy. What if There was a Republican Federal Government and State Government. Would someone be warning us not to associate with known Liberals. Somewhere sometime people will have to learn to think for themselves.
Reiterating that Bullying tactics are not only counter-productive they speak to the lack of intelligence of the antagonists.
Our California, ‘the state’mandates growth. In the face of all the unique issues facing California that should cause us to have a higher degree of concern than most other parts of our Nation for sustainability aka .. survival, The state demands that local communities keep taking in more and more humanity. Fine humans, perhaps deserving of the California Dream but if the millions more that the State plans for and the greedy ‘bank’ on if they expand our communities, doubling our population how does that impact the existing community that exists. Does it threaten our well being and health?
Where is the water coming from that sustains us? How does it get to our faucets and baths? Will it be there to flush our toilets? What is the size of the next big Earthquake?
What happens to the people of California when our infrastructure is critically damaged?
Do people have the right to ask for prudence, conservation, caution? No, things are growing right now some ‘practical’ person might say, we must keep building. New people are arriving everyday. What happens in 2040 when California’s population is up around 40 or 50 million? Do we have the same argument as now? We must keep building because that is the way it is. When do we look at this issue and deal with it and stand for the existing community.
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